Vít Jedlička — Full Transcript

This episode is for everyone who has ever tried or dreamed of doing something exceptional, borderline crazy. When you have an idea and for years you're trying to build it, but everyone tells you that it's impossible and you keep going at it. Portland could be one of those crazy places where millions of new bots are moving in to attain a legal personality and be recognized. But what I'm a little bit concerned about is really the evolution might be so fast that we let the AI agents in and then we no longer know what's going on as humans in a very short period of time. If we decide to go for it next Wednesday it could also be in like two months or something like that. Now we also have a final product for the mobile app that I would say Uberizes police, diplomacy and also justice. It's possible to build the country on web3 technologies and we did that, we proved that more than successfully. The Liberland passport in some regions, for example, in Africa is stronger than Syrian passport. Our citizens have around 20 to 25 countries are now available to travel around the world. We

invite people to become shareholders, get shares worth of $10,000 right now and they get 5,000 merits in exchange and that grants them the citizenship rights. Welcome to Venture Protocol, the podcast series where I sit down with visionary people and we decode protocols behind winning startups, businesses, family offices, investment funds and countries. My name is Anastasia Lukach. I'm a fintech executive with 10 years of experience now working with family offices and inspiring founders and today my guest is the president Vít Jedlička. Welcome to the show. Great to be with you Anastasia. Vít is the president of the youngest country in the world called Liberland. Yes. And this episode is for everyone who has ever tried or dreamed of doing something exceptional, borderline crazy. You know this case when you have an idea and for years

you're trying to build it but everyone tells you that it's impossible and you keep going at it. Well, my guest today is someone who tried to do it and made it successfully. Liberland is growing every year 20, 30, 40 percent. It has become truly an international movement with 800,000 people that signed up for citizenship and those are the people that recognize Liberland, that matters the most. And yes, we had a difficult period initially but we are getting over all the obstacles and Liberland is expanding. I would say doubling now instead of 20 percent, 30 percent growth. So, every year I'm expecting now that we will keep up with the growth that we had last year and we will set up a completely new path for development of our country. So, before we get into the legal status of the country and the business aspects and by the way I want to mention that I want for this to be very focused on stories, numbers, protocols more so than philosophy of

governance despite this also being important. So, you mentioned that Liberland is a startup. Would you say 10 years later it's a successful startup? Well, we're just moving into the series A funding of the startup and that basically because we proved all the concepts we did are moving from this donation-based economy into investment-based and that's very important change because yes, we've proved that it's possible to get Liberland recognized. A couple countries did. It's possible to settle Liberland and it's possible to build there. It's possible to build the country on web3 technologies and we did that. We proved that more than successfully. So, settlement, diplomacy and governance are basically sorted. Now, we also have a final product for the mobile app that I would say uberizes police, diplomacy and also justice. So, that has been also and we are ready to scale. Everything has been proven and we are ready to

really onboard some amount of people as well as some more serious capital into Liberland. So, Liberland is a country, the first country that's powered by AI and blockchain. Well, the AI element is something that I have just discussed with the guys that are running our new office, the Enlightenment investors. Actually, they're sitting only 10 minutes by walk from here and they offered us kindly to be part of their hub and basically have a new representative office in UAE. What we're discussing now that AI agents, of course, people can plug their AI agents into Liberland to represent them already. There's nothing illegal or bad about it but we're also discussing that decentralized AI agents could eventually become citizens of Liberland. That Liberland could be one of those crazy places where millions of new bots are moving into to attain a legal personality and be recognized. And I

think that might be one of the biggest growth factors for Liberland this year. So, currently there's a lot of hype around CloudBot as a Reddit, subreddit where AI agents are actually talking to each other and plotting some things. So, are you saying that these AI agents could actually receive a passport of the countries that you created? Kind of. Well, they cannot collect it physically but they basically might get the same status when it comes to elections, when it comes to being voted or vote for people, being able to influence the debate inside of Liberland. It could be quite crazy development if we really decide to move that way and it's on the next government discussion upcoming Wednesday. So, maybe we make the quick move and decide to go that direction because that would really boost the whole Liberland ecosystem quite a bit. And on an interview with Gordon Einstein,

a very good friend of mine, you mentioned that an AI agent could be a representation of you and something like an entity that watches over the country many, many years down the road. How would that work in practice? One more time, sorry. So, on the interview with Gordon, you mentioned that an AI agent that represents you could be looking after the country when maybe down the line when you're not around. Yeah, of course. I mean, these agents, it's already happening, right? You can give it your portfolio of investments and you can give it access to your citizenship portal and it can already do the job. But what really kind of got my mind that we would go full in on letting AI agents to become persons in themselves without basically an owner, which might be a very interesting situation that we might get ourselves into. But it would probably spark an enormous

amount of interest from these autonomous AI bots that are now on the mold book and would be quite fun to watch. And I'm just trying always now, I'm really like a little bit stuck in the future in that sense because I'm trying to figure out what different implications will this technology have. We're trying to build an agents that are really familiar with the ecosystem, are able to guide people to apply for citizenship that's being under development right now by our AI team. But this additional level where we really let any AI agents to become citizens, contribute to the society, become also developers on its own, basically add code to GitHub, etc. I think that would be a lot of fun. And we have automated everything basically to be ready for this in Liberland. That's kind of the cool part of the whole story. And yes, now the agents can integrate into it, use the forums, use the mobile app, use the private keys to

govern Liberland basically. Nothing is preventing that. And as long as they behave, if they stop behaving, if they start doing some shady stuff, they will be scrutinized, they will be sued. Our judges and our prosecutor right now are also AI agents already, at least the first level, and the humans step in and try to decipher what is going on. But what I'm a little bit concerned about is really the evolution might be so fast that we let the AI agents in and then we no longer know what's going on as humans in a very short period of time. So 10 years down the road, we will have AI agents running the country? Well, it can be actually much faster. I'm worried that if we decide to go for it next Wednesday, it could also be in like two months or something like that. Well, keep us updated. What about the benefits of the citizenship? So let's say an AI agent, and now with the micropayments and AI agents actually doing a lot of tasks that people

were doing previously, having access to the whole country infrastructure, being able to set up a company, would open a lot of possibilities. So what are the benefits of the passport? There are quite a few benefits. People are, for example, getting it in order to be able to get crypto cards if they're Americans. That's a very nice benefit, which is, I would say, the one of the most popular. People with passports from Asian countries are getting it because sometimes it actually gives them better access to travel in some countries, which is quite interesting, yes. The Liberland passport in some regions, for example, in Africa, is stronger than Syrian passport. And yes, like people can now do KYC processes with Liberland passport on Binance and on Binance with Bikonomy. Okay, we can cut this one, for example. You shouldn't tell me that we can cut, because if you tell me, then I'm misusing it. But with Binance and Bikonomy, for example, now accept fully Liberland passports. And we have just made a deal with Samsung. Okay, amazing. And

I hope that will actually lead to wider recognition of what we're doing. So Malta is selling passports for a million dollars. How much does a Liberland passport cost? Right now, it's $10,000, but we're not actually selling the passport itself. We invite people to become shareholders, to get shares worth of $10,000 right now, and they get 5,000 merits in exchange. And that grants them the citizenship rights. Okay, so that's $2 per merit. Yes, yes. Is merit different from Liberland dollar? Yes, Liberland dollar is a currency of the ecosystem. So it's actually used for gas fees. Okay. Mainly and partially also for security of the blockchain right now. But the main political token is Liberland merit. That's the main asset of Liberland that represents not just the share of the country, but it also has direct ties to the land. So if you have basically 5,000 merits, you can settle 500 square meters inside of

Liberland and build one of these three houses, for example. Interesting. And how about the travel capabilities? Basically, the definition of a country is something that's recognized by other countries, correct? So how many countries recognize Liberland as an official country in a sense that on a Liberland passport, I could go into the country? And what's been your experience yourself? Well, my diplomatic passport is full of stamps. I even got one from the United States, but it was a very special occasion. The Trump inauguration, right? Yes, yes. That was a special occasion. I actually got invited by the American general to the countryside, proper invitation letter. And it was a thing that, you know, it's not that usual, but otherwise, of course, whenever we are traveling to get Liberland recognized, like for example, like we did a trip to El Salvador, we are not traveling on any other passports. We're using Liberland passports to go. And our citizens have around 20 to 25 countries are now available to travel around the world where you can really

use your passport to enter the country. So other than buying $10,000 worth of shares, the merits of Liberland, what else is a requirement to obtain a passport? Well, there is a citizenship interview. We need to make sure that citizens are aligned. People have to swear that they will not steal from their fellow citizens by force. That's another very important thing. Or they will basically not use the state to steal from their fellow citizens. That's the exact pledge. And yes, and otherwise, we just welcome people usually on some nice event like the anniversary, like our opening office of UAE always gathered the citizens and trying to do some ceremony around onboarding people. In 2024, Justin Sun became the prime minister of Liberland. Yes, that was a big event. So is it possible to buy a title, like a government title, government position?

Well, not really. You can buy merits. And with that merits, you can influence the elections. Well, if you contribute more to Liberland, you have a bigger say, just like in any corporation. But in his case, it was really that he came to us and said, I want to contribute somehow. And I told him, I could ask him multiple things. But I was thinking it would be fun if you ran for prime minister of Liberland. I would definitely support you to have you. And that's great to have him now almost for more than a year now. He is the prime minister of Liberland. We have elections every three months. It's all completely algorithmic. It was the first elections ever for nation state completely on blockchain. We cannot postpone them again. It's actually scheduled to happen exactly every three months. And it has been running according to our expectations or even, I would say, exceeded the expectations. And the people that are applying to run in these elections are usually very high profile, quality people. For example, one of the last additions to Congress

was Brittany Kaiser, very famous for her whistleblowing, but also very strong ties to Telegram and Tone ecosystem because they're running this venture fund. So multiple, very nice people. Of course, there are Liberland veterans like Tariq Abbasi, also represented. representative of the crown, which is pretty exciting to have somebody like him with us. And is the president's role also being elected? Yes, the president's role is actually embodied in senate. Senate is kind of house of lords of Liberland, so there is this monarchical element. Presidents are elected now for five years and they preside the senate. They're elected by senate members actually. Let's talk about the business aspect. What funds Liberland ten years after it's been launched? What funds? Yes. Of course, it funds the contributions by people that, and by the way, like one of the things

that you can actually get is the senatorship by investment. Right now it's $2 million in this series A funding. We are looking for more senators that are aligned with our vision and they're ready to contribute $2 million to get the senatorship seat and 1 million merits. So that's the offer for the bigger fishes and as Liberland needs funding, we've got planned to spend around $30 million just on development projects in Liberland and around Liberland in the upcoming year. So there is a big opportunity for investment funds to join in and banks and I'm quite keen really about the team that we have now in Dubai. The gentleman that I just met has a big investment fund. We have also actually another office very close by, which is a Chinese family office, which already opened or promised to open $40 million credit line for everything that we might need to accomplish. So it's a good team here in Dubai. Do you feel accomplished?

Well, you know, I feel like we're very well poised to make some big impact over the coming year with what we're doing. How many years passed since the time you came up with the idea to the time you made your first revenue? Well, Liberland has an ongoing system of financing. So basically there is 70 million merits from beginning, just like Bitcoin. There is a maximum amount of merits, which is actually defined by the fact that Liberland is 7 million square meters. So it's 10 merits per one square meter of land and 10% of merits are being issued of what remains in the funds in the sovereign fund are issued to markets every year. So it's basically never ending. So of shares, which are becoming more and more precious, less and less are getting to the market while we have created bigger and bigger value for the ecosystem.

We have not launched the merit ecosystem fully yet. It has been basically launched only through the Liberland dollar ecosystem, but we are just about to do it as we are moving part of the ecosystem to Ethereum network for larger security or bigger, better security and better bridging to liquidity pools. We don't want to be relying on bridges in the future. And the main blockchain that the governance system runs on, is it still Polkadot? It's not Polkadot. It's not Polkadot. It's a similar technological stack. We have got a lot of inspiration from Polkadot, but it's a L1, meaning self-stand alone blockchain that is governed and run by Liberland citizens. Okay. Let's talk about the geographics. Where is Liberland located? How does it look like? I've been at your anniversary event in 2023. It was a very nice experience, lots of nature, certainly a fair amount of land to be developed.

In comparison to, I suppose, Singapore, which is just a city, but runs and has quite a big capital volumes, the trans route. Yes. I mean, like Singapore was also basically a jungle before. It was a swamp full of mosquitoes, as many people say historically, and Liberland is a nice, beautiful piece of nature with great weather, basically starting in early April, going all the way to October. We've got one and a half kilometer long sandy beach on the island that is next to Liberland on the Danube River. So it's a very beautiful scenery that we have in Liberland. And what we are focused now on is not just to develop this treehouse resort as a proof of concept, finalizing that, but also actually make substantial investments, again, to prepare the infrastructure, improve the harbor in Apatin to be able to have bigger ships coming down to Liberland, build longevity clinic, expand our Liberland arch village that we

finally got these approvals for expansion. Actually, yesterday we got the paperwork so we can progress. Congratulations. So that's that's a good news. And yes, longevity is a big topic. Wellness also. So we are taking one of these factories that were built by Habsburg, actually very nice historical object, and we are turning it into spa and longevity clinic. And then we are making 12 new nice villas right next to existing development that is the arch village with already 22 houses. And those people are, of course, playing a vital role in the settlement of Liberland itself while we are in parallel developing the treehouse resort. How many people live in Liberland right now? Right now we're more focused on security. So I would say therefore, for basically security personnel having daily visits from citizens and journalists, we are planning to expand it to 100 people living in Liberland this

summer. It's a bit of a milestone for us because people like Vitalik Buterin told us that this is an important milestone for them to personally step into the game and support Liberland in a bigger way. That's amazing. So it's located in Europe between Serbia and Croatia. How are your relationships with your neighboring countries? Well, Serbia in 2015, actually on 21st April 2015, seven days after Liberland was created, they declared that Liberland is not formed on the territory of Serbia and they don't mind creation of Liberland, which was very, very useful. It created a big upheaval in Croatia because they didn't know how to react. They kind of panicked, made a secret governmental meeting where we had one Liberlander president at that meeting, which was very useful. Was it secret? It was secret, but we had somebody that likes Liberland.

So we had all the details from that meeting. So their strategy was at the time to call us internet joke, while actually the world media did a really good job in positioning us as a serious development project from beginning. I would say it was one of the surprising elements that not just like alternative media or social media, but mainstream media gave us a lot of space, including CNN, Russia Today, all the big international basically consortiums stopped by, visited Liberland or made interview with me. So that was a nice boost. And during these two months, we had bigger immigration numbers than the United States. We literally had like 250,000 people applying for, which is similar number, like people applying for a green card in the United States. So it was a huge boost. We had actually more than a million applications total in the first month, but we had to cancel the process as it was done by email. And we had no way to process 1 million emails without AI back in the day. So we just kind of gave up and told everybody to fill up the form.

And from that, we had like 200,000, 250,000 people that actually went ahead and fill up all the forms for applications. And how are your diplomatic relationships with other countries? I know that you mentioned El Salvador, United States and Argentina, Xavier Millet apparently expressed a lot of interest towards Liberland and accepting it as a country. Xavier Millet is a great guy. He actually was running for president as a general coming from Liberland, coming to save Argentina. That was his official campaign avatar, basically. But it was very nice to see that he also is serious and he actually applied for Liberland citizenship recently. So as one of the very few presidents that did apply for a second, probably the only president that's ever applied for a second citizenship during him being in the presidential post as I checked with AI. So it's great to have people like him on board. We're also very grateful that the new Czech foreign minister and minister of environment

is a Liberland citizen and he's outspoken about it. We have very strong ties to Slovakian political scene. Our minister of interior of Liberland is actually second most popular politician in Croatia, which brings me actually back to Croatia, which is a little bit more difficult in some respect than Croatia or than Serbia. I mean, they've been our spanning partner for the last couple of years when it comes to diplomacy and also, I would say, challenging us when it comes to access to Liberland. But most of these problems we have overcome and we have. I was, to be honest with you, I was quite happy about the level of friction that they gave us because it really helped us to elevate us to more professional, more country like level. So again, I consider them good spanning partners for our statehood journey. Now, the situation is that four years, four days ago, there was a very strong debate about

Liberland parliament. What is very important point out of the debate is that all the parties basically recognized that Liberland is not part of the territory of Croatia, which is very, very helpful recognition. And I just hope we will be able to install a serious diplomatic relations with them in the future. For now, they're treating us as a parastate. They're in their own documents. So they already recognize that Liberland has a state like structure and the only thing it misses for full statehood is enough diplomatic recognition. And what about the business aspect? So here in Dubai, a lot of my friends have decided to move here and establish companies here because it was a more favorable tax regime, obviously. So for an entrepreneur, are they already able to register a company in Liberland and open a bank account and basically do some economic activity with that? For sure. And yes, you can go with pure Liberland company that requires you to have

corporate secretary in Liberland. So you have to hire someone that lives in Liberland to if you want to have a pure Liberland company. But then there there is a good boy company where basically offer you with all our banking connections and you already have some company somewhere else. But you basically extend your business capacities using Liberland market, Liberland Stripe, Liberland PayPal. So you can immediately basically launch your business, which I think is very, very useful. And yes, like Liberland, the companies now can utilize banking services, which is great. Do you have a Liberland bank or is it still banks from other countries? Mostly banks from other countries run by our citizens abroad. But Liberland Bank is under construction right now. We've got one of the family offices from United Kingdom decided to build a true Liberland bank. OK, so if I wanted to establish to open a business, I would need to hire a local person who lives in Liberland. It can be symbolic wage.

He doesn't have to be like he doesn't have to work for you full time. But for legitimacy reasons, it's really good to have somebody that actually lives in Liberland for both the company as well as for other international partners. It's really good to have this physical point there and have address inside of Liberland. And then in order to get a bank account, I would need to be a citizen of Liberland applying with that passport to a bank. Noting that actually right now, there is a couple of corporations that don't that are like Liberland and they don't follow this. And we will slowly start endorsing it because this is something that really will bring people physically to the territory. And and and I think it will be fun also. You can call your secretary in Liberland to what's happening with the orders today and run things from Liberland. It's a it's really beautiful place to stay at, especially between April and October. And for next winter, we're planning to do a spa there.

So we will incentivize people to come to Liberland for tourism in that way. Who doesn't like a spa. But last time we talked, you mentioned that you're working on some special regime or benefits for entrepreneurs who want to work establishing their business in Liberland. Yes, we are building a tool for them to do business easier, going a little bit where deal if your deal.com is, we are basically providing them with the whole management service or not yet because we are just finishing developing the ecosystem for ourselves because we figured out it was actually difficult to find the right working tools to manage accounting, especially in the crypto world, manage working hours of people, manage the task management or microcontracts. So we did all these like three, four things and properties also like we couldn't really find a good tool that we could use as a state. So now we developed it for ourselves, integrated into the mobile app and are integrating it

into the blockchain so that everything is basically tokenized. And we are offering it, I believe by end of April, we will offer it to Liberland companies to utilize the same set of tools, which again is like a small bonus for anybody running Liberland company that they are able to use some things that we really couldn't find on market to make business grow. So when roughly do you think it's going to be a good destination for business owners who want to launch, for instance, some digital businesses? They need to have a company. Yeah, well, digital businesses are very welcome if they're not physically located and they don't need to like ship stuff, etc. If they're online, then they can do it right away. What about taxes? Taxes are voluntary. If you pay them, you are very welcome. We send you a thank you letter and you also get the share. of Liberland. Okay, and the shirt? Or just shares? Shares, well, and shirts. You know,

we've got really nice shirts now from Davos, so we might even start sending people shirts. But it's a fun fact, you know, there is no country in the world that would say thank you when you send it taxes. Ah, very true. Yeah, it's like nobody really sends you thank you letter for being a good taxpayer. It's everywhere, it's like considered a non-thanking event. And of course, no country in the world sends you shares if you pay there. And of course, if you send a little bit less, most of the countries actually put you in jail if you don't send enough taxes, like what they think is appropriate. Yes, but not in Liberland. What about thank you letters to investors? Investors and donors, can you walk us through your fundraising history? And then I would like to ask more about your personal story building this. Okay, well, we were quite happy that big names like Roger Ware, for example, supported Liberland initially, with like a monthly recurring payments that was very helpful, especially in 2017, 18, 19, when we had a lot of challenges,

diplomatic ones, but we were able to represent Liberland properly, you know, visit Somaliland with whole delegation, bring them some value with this, like, let's say, lower level funding. But now Liberland budget is this last year, I think we are concluding with $3 million in the total budget, and there should be almost $2 million basically surplus, which gives us a nice edge for development. So this is the current situation. And yes, like, you know, like, beginnings were tough. We were literally, the budget was minimal. We had to take care of a lot of, like, international visits. I think I visited like 60 countries around the world to really build the network. And of course, one thing is that people apply for citizenship online. The other thing is to get them to actually move to Liberland or invest in Liberland. So that traveling was necessary. Not everybody was ready to, like,

just apply for citizenship and fly to Liberland, but people want to meet in person. Interestingly enough, my timeline, my life is probably not long enough, even if I use some longevity tools to meet all 800,000 people that apply for citizenship. But sometimes it's crazy. Sometimes I get to meet people now in Dubai, randomly on street that applied, that recognized me and applied many years ago. But now they're having a big venture fund as well, right? Suddenly they're not just students on Harvard, when they apply, this is exactly what happened to me actually three days ago. And they follow Liberland, they get the newsletters, but they really need to be pushed a little bit by a personal meeting to get things rolling. And we need, of course, a couple hundred people that really have the capacity to help Liberland to make a difference. It's like building a country is not one measure. So three million dollars you mentioned is what you

got in revenue plus investments last year. You spent one million of that and you still have over two million dollars in your treasury. That should be the result for last year's accounting. And what funding are you raising right now? What's the round? The round is another two million dollars that we just signed and raised. So these tickets are getting the full senatorship in Liberland plus the merits. And yes, we need actually bigger movers, bigger shakers than just citizens. Ten thousand is good. But of course, if you want to build a road, ten thousand dollars is not going to make it. And if you want to build strong diplomatic ties, of course, we can get more and more citizens. And now with bigger utility, I believe we will get, I hope, one a day, two a day, which will be a very nice streamline of support also going to Liberland. But now it's the time for bigger fishes to step in and in this round to get

Liberland to a new level. And we were planning to raise ten million dollars this way. Finance the rest probably through other means, through tokenization and through maybe some bank instruments. But with ten million dollars spent directly for developing all these services in Liberland, it will be a huge difference if we manage to do it this year as it's planned. And what does investors get in return? So they're getting Liberland merits. That's one thing. But the big fishes are also getting one percent share in Liberland Limited, which is the main service company of Liberland. That is basically a company where, again, one shareholder is one senator also in the system. And senatorship is for life. It's tied to your share in Liberland Limited, but it's also tied in your seat in Senate, which is part of this DAO organization. And yes, I'm the president of Senate, but I can be voted out. Only senators can become presidents, people that really have substantially contributed to the country before.

There are actually two ways. You can either now contribute two million dollars or get full recognition by UN country. Those are two ways to become a senator. So it's like a two million dollar incentive for people to take the time and get Liberland recognized. Invest social capital. So Liberland Limited is a company that runs everything. It's going to run the longevity resorts, services, etc. And that's going to be accumulating the main revenue. But it doesn't control the treasury per se. It does have a veto power over Congress spendings. OK, so the investors that are going to participate in your current round and could become senators and get one percent of Liberland Limited, would they be getting some dividends or what's going to be the return on investment? So the senators actually have this pretty nice bonus because they are not just merit holders. They are getting one million merits out of two million dollar investment, but they get additional merits that are related to

their one percent share in Liberland Limited. And that one percent share is basically one percent of all undistributed merits. So let's say the current situation is that out of 70 million merits, some 49 million are still in reserves. So from that 49, basically now 490,000 extra merits. So we are getting like a 50 percent bonus if you decide to join this round. And I think it's reasonable. People that really contribute big time, they are getting not just one million merits, but they're getting additional almost half a million merits in form of indirect ownership of these merits through the sovereign fund. But are merits something that can only be spent within Liberland for services, for purchasing land, for instance? Well, merits have two forms. One of them is staked and that's the one that you get when you become citizen. You can unstake 10 percent a year, which means that basically it's your kind of pension

fund as well. You can decide to spend it later. But if you fall below 5,000, you basically lose access to be elected or to vote. And yes, the senators, again, they're getting the traditional merits in the state form, but they're also getting the merits in the sovereign fund. And this is the thing about Liberland. Nothing in Liberland is public. There is like no common property. Everything in Liberland is private. It has an owner already, which I believe is also another important step to make things better, because we know this tragedy of commons when it belongs to everybody and nobody at the same time. In Liberland, we have a private ownership of everything inside of Liberland. So is there going to be a secondary market for merits? Basically, I want to understand if I invest a million dollars, I get a certain amount of merits back. But what's going to be the monetary value of this, you know? There is, of course, a possibility to negotiate the liquidity of this one million merits as well

for investors. That's one of the things that is negotiable. And yes, Liberland merits. Once we transfer part of the ecosystem to Ethereum to really secure everything properly, we are going to launch it as a big token sale. And for example, CoinGecko, we are the second most awaited launch of a token currently on crypto markets. When are you planning to launch? Right after the technology will be ready. I think we're able to basically start launching the proper campaign after the anniversary, after the 11th anniversary in April. So later this year, 2026. And the Liberland dollar is already traded and listed on MEXC and some other crypto exchanges, right? Yes. It is basically the gas token of the ecosystem. It was the first dividend of Liberland merit. Basically, everybody that had merits got 10% in the form of Liberland dollars. So it was kind of airdrop on everybody that previously contributed

to Liberland. Its utility, again, is running the blockchain that we are currently on. But of course, it also has become a popular currency among Liberlanders. So of course, it's a small token. So it's a lot of up and down. I mean, we had 50x on the token. So interestingly enough, because it was 10% of your initial contribution, you could exit with 5x with the first dividend of your donation to Liberland that you made 10 years ago or 10 days before the launch of the dividend. So we already had a one dividend from the ecosystem. And in the future, what are the core businesses or services that will become operational in Liberland first? What's going to be the revenue sources? Well, I would say hackers really like Liberland. We've got some of the world's top hackers that are incorporated just in Liberland. Decentralized exchanges, also many of them like to do most in Liberland. We've got

the international advisors, lawyers, people that do really international nomadic stuff. Also, Liberland is popular. But of course, then we've got the idealists that just really like what we're doing. And they base it in Liberland for no good business reason, but for the fact that they just want to support Liberland. So those people, when they provide law services or something else, them paying taxes to Liberland is basically a source of revenue. But what about businesses that would be physically established by Liberland Limited or digital businesses? Directly established by Liberland Limited. So what we're doing right now, as I told you, we're using our business structures to help Liberland businesses as well. So even though they would have a problem, for example, opening PayPal or Stripe, we're using our gateways to help them to onboard. So that is one of the important things. Plus, now we're adding this

mobile app features to really help Liberland businesses to do even accounting, property management, time management of workforce, micro-contracting. So everything is basically in the messenger that Liberlanders are using directly in the chat. You can create a contract, you can sign it with one click of the button, you can pay for it with Liberland dollars or other currency, you can consider it paid. So it's a very powerful tool, I would say, on business level wise. And now when we give the same micro-contract environment to the bots that will be part of or AI bots that will be part of the ecosystem, I think it will be also quite powerful. And it's like one environment where you have everything, incorporation, but also dispute resolution. So if that micro-contract is not followed directly in the app, you can dispute it. The AI will make the first initial decision based on the data it has. Again, if you don't like it, then it's going to be elevated to humans. So it's going to be a very neat business environment for

anybody around the world. And yes, sometimes we're also able to help people that, for example, live in Croatia, because we have Croatian entity that can hire them for minimal wage, for example, then they become part of our company. We can then pay on their behalf their business expenses. And we basically have a legal way how to optimize taxes for them and get rid of all the accounting costs that they would have to pay normally. So it's a little bit like bigger idea than just classical incorporation. We're helping them on a broader scale. And what about spa? You mentioned longevity clinic, a resort. I would imagine a gateway resort would be something that could attract a lot of people to actually come and visit. Yes, yes. And this building that we're refurbishing, that we just got the permit for, is really beautiful place to turn it into spa.

Can you imagine, like these 250 years old, built by Habsburg, by the way, that are very close to Liberland. History. Yeah. So it has historic walls, nice historic building that was actually pumping the water from Danube to irrigation channels, but unbelievably well preserved. The roof has fallen like 10 years ago, after 250 years. And so all the walls are intact and everything. We can make a nice glass roof. And yes, my personal passion is actually the sauna villages, this kind of lifestyle. And longevity has become also a major driver. We already have hyperbolic chambers, we already have red light therapy, but we're going to expand it with more cooler and better stuff very soon. So if a spa owner or a longevity expert wanted to open a hub in Liberland, could they expect a grant or some sort of governmental support from you? Well, right now we are actually subsidizing

construction in Liberland in some sense, because people can get merits also. You can also directly invest in Liberland and get citizenship by investment. It's not usually something that we say publicly, but yes, you can build your house in Liberland and you will get shares of Liberland. for building it just because we really want to incentivize people to invest into the territory itself. And what percentage of the land is currently owned privately? Well, that's a good question. I would say it's, well, everything is private in Liberland as I told you. So everything is owned by married holders and by Liberland Limited as a main underlying entity. But the percentage of plots that were claimed by the people that have marriage is, I would say, less than half percent for now. So we are still in a very early stage when it comes to people being present there. And this is because this treehouse resort on Liberty Island basically

just started and of Indocentric people, a couple of people basically cleaned their plots and started constructing something. So we also recognize their claim in the center of Liberland and actually on the periphery, a couple of people also are maintaining a couple of plots, but the big construction we're expecting to start this spring. Well, we are here in Dubai and in Dubai, most people are foreigners and land market, real estate market is very active. So I would imagine that when more people start coming to Liberland, the secondary market for land is going to be contributing big time to your country's revenue. Exactly. Yes. Yes. And we're just right now redoing everything on Ethereum when it comes to land registry as well. So when we do that, I think it will be a lot of fun that you will be able to within a split of a second to transfer that title to anybody else. Very nice. So one other part that's a constant in our podcast is

when I ask guests to share their personal asset management protocols. So how do you manage your finances? What are your favorite investment classes? Are you investing in Liberland capital in addition to your social capital and your time and energy? Yes. For me, I believe Liberland for me personally is also number one. I do have some micro investments into other projects like robotics, which I think it will be important part of Liberland story. And we kind of have a family office in that sense that the business around Liberland Limited is distributing the funds in these projects that we are just describing. And as Liberland Limited or Liberland Senat is holding 95% of its assets now in crypto, mainly in Bitcoin. But we are looking into diversification now also into other assets. So for me, like Bitcoin is, of course, one of the

keys to the future. I'm heading to Monero Topia from here, from Dubai. So we actually told them that we are going to diversify also into Monero, which I think is a smart move. El Salvador was a very interesting part of the story for Liberland. And for me personally, too, I spent two months in El Salvador this summer with my previous company. We were a part of an accelerator there. And I was impressed with how committed the politicians were to making life better for the citizens. And you seem very similar in this regard. Yeah, well, the president of El Salvador recognized us during the opening of the Bitcoin City. Maybe you saw the video. He said he is happy that Liberland might be part of this. And he sees 30 Alexandria's around the world, similar like Liberland. And yes, we are like first one. And he would like Bitcoin City to be also very similar Liberland like oriented. But when they announced it, I almost felt like

they borrowed some ideas from Liberland, which I'm excited about. So we were there personally. We met all the ministers during this opening. It was a great opportunity to do these high-level contacts. But then we got some pushback from Croatia. It was fun as well. But we just recently restarted all the contacts in the whole region, actually. So, closing remarks. What can you tell to people who themselves want to do something crazy? Well, I think, to be honest with you, I think there is a great space now for really building new countries, especially if people already made it in their lives. You know, turning the little bit of effort into building something special. Why not? I think there will be the network state movement is growing. It has come, I think, seven years after Liberland itself, but we kind of prepared the ground for it.

And yes, we need competition to existing jurisdictions. We don't need one world government. We really don't need that because we know that power corrupts and ultimate power corrupts ultimately. And yes, this idea, for example, that we will allow AI agents to get full citizenship right might be quite revolutionary right now, but probably that's where we are heading. This kind of merger of AI with humans in some reasonable way under some reasonable constitution. Well, thank you very much, Wit. I'm looking forward to the future. This was Venture Protocol. My name is Anastasia Lukach and I will see you in the next episodes. Amazing. Thank you very much. Thank you. This was great. Oh, now I want to come to Liberland again when you have the longevity stuff. Great, great. Please, please join us. Well, if you can, it would be lovely and we can organize for your studio there so you could make your... Oh, we can interview the people who are coming to visit. Yes, yes. That would be excellent. I also met Samuel, actually, when we

were in Hong Kong, I think, or Singapore. We had the same bags. Really? Yes, she's such a nice lady. So, amazing. You're having the anniversary in April, right? Yes, yes. Very nice. I would love to include the links to the conference in the description. Anniversary.Liberland.org. Do you have some like promo codes or something? Yes, we're happy to give you. Excellent, excellent. So, thank you very much. Proper kickback from the sales. Okay. You're good on camera, always. Thank you. You're great. How many shows did you do so far? Recorded six and I'm releasing them over the course of February and March. I have a couple of guests I really want to have on here from the high caliber circles in Dubai. And yeah, I've been wanting to do this for many years, actually. Great, great. And the good news also, I'm not sure how much you have office here, but it seems really that the office is right next

door. You'll be able to use it like a Liberland hub. Oh, you have an office here? Yeah, the one that I just walked from. So, it's a really nice place. We shake hands. We didn't sign the agreement, but we said that, basically, Liberland citizens will have exclusive access to the whole space. And it's becoming also AI, basically. Oh, wow. So, you'll have a representation office in Dubai. It has a nice podcast studio there. We won, actually, as part of the hub. I would be honored to serve as a spokesperson for some of the occasions that you guys have here. I love the concept. Thank you. Thank you very much. Likewise. Likewise. I'll just talk to Victor for a bit. I'll put the power back there. I'll put the charger. Good? Good work. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much.